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Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (212.116.226.---) Date:   04-13-06 01:31 Word "love" means different thing for different person. What that word does mean for your person? Have your own formula for it? Maybe, you could tell here about some main its components?

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Angel  (---.koreabusplaza.ru) Date:   04-13-06 03:21 The love happens different: children, relatives, men..... I shall stop on the last. I think that to us leaders of modern foolish female currents - the woman to not search for freedom or human rights, the woman to search strong for the man and Definiteness...

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Smiling  (---.ukrlink.net.ua) Date:   04-13-06 11:36 Elena, You began the topic like mine, I hope you will be much fortunatelier than me. :):)

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (212.116.251.---) Date:   04-14-06 00:43 Thank you, Angela, Angelina, for your kind support of my topic, but I have meant - what feelings do you have when you fall in love? What does need for your own heart to burn from love to man?

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (212.116.251.---) Date:   04-14-06 00:46 Dear Smiling, people here do worry only about scam and scammers so I am sorry but I don't hope on it.:))

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Angel  (---.koreabusplaza.ru) Date:   04-14-06 01:05 Dear Elena Really people here were divided into 2 fronts scammers and people which catch these scammers. Thus methods of the hunter from methods scammers have no differences))) Angelina

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Andy  (---.63-199-68.atginternet.com) Date:   04-14-06 07:24 Well, "girls" I guess I have been "typed" casted into being something, I did not realy think I was (lol). I have been corisponding with fsu ladies for 7 years, and have had one marrage visa, applacation, prosesed, and yes I have been scammed, but in 80% of the cases I asked for it, and concider it price of "school" (smile). As to the question here, Yes, the meaning of "love" is as different as the people who claim to be in love. My self, I believe, the only thing that keeps man and woman together, is "respect" and "sex", in that order. Most all else, is "infatuation"

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Sam  (---.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Date:   04-14-06 23:52 Thank you Elena for introducing a subject other than all the negative posts about scammers, bad men, women and the bashing of people of the other gender, culture or religion; I had lost interest in replying to any posts!! But I like to encourage posts like yours; so may I add my two cents? It is absolutely true that love is different for different people: how we love is an extension of our character, as we channel desires and ideas rooted in our past and act on them in patterns we learn in our cultures. My understanding of love may surprise some of the fellow American men here, but I do not think it will surprise you, Elena. Love of course begins with desire, but what sustains love isn’t desire, but an imaginative idea of who the other person is and what the union of the two means. This requires imagination: the ability to see something in the other person perhaps very few other people see, the ability to value what we see in this person as much as anything else we value in our own being, and finally the ability to see our own incompleteness and finding completion by being with this other person & her ideas. In that sense love is the ability to see the world though another person’s eyes, and although I may not want to abandon my own ideas, I begin to see the beauty of how she sees the world and discover that what she brings into my life completes me and my ideas. In that sense, true love first requires a discovery of our own incompleteness, secondly it requires the ability to recognize what completes it; and lastly, it requires the ability to abandon some of our own solitary ideas in order to make room for fresh ideas we appreciate in the one we love. This of course is a sentimental view, but then what is love without sentiment except interesting adventures in desire and lust? For me sentiment is the larger part of being in love. Sentiment is a blind poet who must travel in the company of desire & lust; lust and desire will restlessly take us from one adventure to another, but if we pause long enough to see with imaginative eyes, it is the poet that overwhelms us. We are in love when we happily prefer the poetry of sentiment over the adventure of lust.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dialup.itte.kz) Date:   04-17-06 02:24 Sweet Angelina, really, I'd prefer that there were people here who post their opinions, their questions about true love between man and woman, tell about problems with it, with misunderstanding between sexes, but, unfortunately, it's too rare - to meet here such posts! Mostly men are interested only in the disclosure some next scammer and we must hear recurrent story about this again and again. Although, the true man must be enough clever and strong for recognizing such woman (scammer or just dishonest) by himself, without any help from somebody else. And, Angelina, I amn't agree with you that "methods of the hunter from methods scammers have no differences". I think that in the most cases the methods of scammers excel the methods of the hunters because of the native clever nature of the firsts. And it's pity to read about next their victims so it hasn't any end. The clever (although sometimes not so clever) and quick-witted brain of scammers will always win the slow and naive brain of hunters. Internet is the communication of the brains. So the winner is that one who is more clever. It's obvious. And, finally, Angelina, what feelings do you have when you feel yourself the falled in love with some man (besides Definiteness?:))

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dialup.itte.kz) Date:   04-17-06 02:25 Andy, my greetings to you, your post was more close to my question.:)) Really, two qualities that you have called are very important for true love of any person. But there is one more quality without love cann't exist. And, maybe, it's more important thing for the true love of mostly Russian girls and women. So they are able to feel "respect" to and, finally, have "sex" with foreigns but they won't feel true love to them without just one more great sincere feeling. Andy, you have the chance to become the winner of this topic if you will post your mind about this feeling here.:))

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dialup.itte.kz) Date:   04-17-06 03:59 Thank you, Sam, for your kind joining to this thread (although I'd like also to read your opinion in the topic ". Really, I have thought that you have left all us here.:)) Your clever posts here are always very interesting for reading and never like other silly posts about scam... I must say - I was surprised to know that love begins with desire, Sam, because for arousing of this feeling in the soul of the woman she first must get some other feelings to man. I am sure and for arousing of love in the man's heart necessary something more than only desire. You could have desire for many attractive for you persons but your heart always loves only one of all them. And I'd like to say that sometimes love can begin from feelings that are too far from desire.:)) I am agree, finally, this feeling is absolutely necessary for having true love to somebody. But for woman it's rare when love begins with desire... About incompleteness and completeness... I think all people are different and some of them don't feel any necessity to complete them by any way. They have a nice own life and could live alone for all their lifetime. Some others need their own completion very much. They cann't live without true love and look for it for a long time. And, really, in this case your words about tree requirements for true love is just fair... Thus, I think there are two ways for the search of true love for different persons: one way is looking for the person who is like your owns and second way - looking for someone who is extremely different from you, for more better completeness of last one. I'd like to notice about sentiments - that the more romantic nature, high culture, sensitive heart any person has the more supreme love that person will have.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dialup.itte.kz) Date:   04-17-06 04:25 Sam, I am sorry, I didn't write what topic I 'd glad to see your posts in. It's Olga's post "It is normal when the groom is more senior than the girl for 25 years?" I hope you will express your opinion there.:))

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Sam  (---.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Date:   04-17-06 15:19 Elena, Understandably, to some extent you misunderstood what I meant with the word desire. By desire I did not mean only the physical attraction. I used both words “desire” and “lust” in order to make it clear they can be different and that there is more to desire than physical attraction. Also, in my last paragraph in that post I did clearly talk about sentiment being the larger part of love, as you seem to be saying in your post. It seems I was unable to make it clear that I was writing about the kind of desires that lead to sentiment with the aid of imagination. Let me try to explain it differently here. Imagine a young couple. The man walks into the living room late at night where his young wife has fallen asleep in front of TV. Viewing her attractive body, he feels a physical desire, slaps her on the behind, and awakens her. They go together to the bedroom and make love passionately. They are in love and that is one type of desire keeping them together. Now imagine a different couple somewhere else, and once again the man finds his young wife having fallen asleep in front of the TV. He views how helpless and innocent she looks in her sleep, like a little girl. He imagines how often as a child she must have fallen asleep everywhere and that probably her father often lifted her and took her to her bed. He imagines how this young beautiful woman will one day become old, withered and tired, falling asleep everywhere again, but no one will then look upon her and see the beauty that she once was as a young woman or a child. In imaging all this fragile and passing beauty in his wife, he feels another kind of desire… to hold this life dear as a father would, to see it happy in life as a friend should, and to protect it, cherish it and know of its needs, hopes and ideas as a lover must. It is a simple moment, but in his imaginative eyes, this moment encapsulates the wonder of this woman’s fragile and beautiful life and so he gently lifts her in her sleep and carries her to her bed like her father did many years before. I call this also a desire…. the desire to go through life and relate to others in all relations with sentiment on many levels… sentiment that is informed and inspired by imagination. For this couple, love is not mere physical attraction, but there is also compassion and tenderness. What leads this man to these finer feelings and to look upon life and his wife in this way? We are not all born that way? I think this man goes through life with the desire to experience a wide range of feelings, ideas and longings, but all these feelings are rooted not in the body, but in the mind… in his imagination. It is simply the desire to see, explore and relate to the more obscure beauty in life. For me desire is the bases of feelings… the very feelings you talk about in your description of love. These feelings are rooted in the desire to connect to others, emotionally and spiritually. Feelings do not exist within us in a vacuum; these feelings are the product of a more basic desire to feel alive in a variety of ways: belonging to a place, belong to another person, feeling connected with others and so on. What makes our feelings different from person to person is how much our imaginations work on our desires and shape them into deeper or wider feelings and sentiments. In short, we are all driven by desire, but for many of us desires are narrow and lead to mere physical experiences; but the kind of desires that I talk about are thrown into the fire of imagination and lead to the needs, hopes and feelings that you are talking about, the feelings I call sentiment. There is a German movie you might want to see; it is called “Wings of Desire.” To some degree this movie makes my point: desire is not just a bodily experience; taken into an imaginative mind, desire spreads into an emotional and sentimental state of mind that in turn becomes the wings to a man’s soul.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Smiling  (---.ukrlink.net.ua) Date:   04-17-06 15:46 What happen on chemical level with a man who loves? You can read about it in the magasine National Geography for March number. It is really interesting to know about physical proceses in the body of a man who loves.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Smiling  (---.ukrlink.net.ua) Date:   04-17-06 15:50 And chemical-biology processes,too. It is appeared, it is possible to explane love , express love by help of chemical formulas

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Andy  (---.63-199-68.atginternet.com) Date:   04-17-06 20:15 Well I see that Smiling has congered up the "chemistry" equation, and it is one of the most sought after feelings, for women of USA, and maybe of the world (smile). It is a mix of all that you can dream of of your "wantabe" da.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dialup.itte.kz) Date:   04-18-06 03:07 Sam, thank you for your fine explanation of your own understanding the word "desire". Really, talking about this feeling in my last post, I have mostly meant the physical meaning of this word. Because, in most cases, when people use this word they usually mean just physical attraction one body to other. After reading your post I realize now that you mean some different meaning of it. In a way you spread your understanding such feeling as "desire" on many, many other feelings including "love". Your word "desire" means too much! It means - respect, understanding, help, protection, compassion, pity, friendship, care, tenderness, romanticism, imagination, lust, love, etc.... Finally, you say about "desire" as about "wings to a man’s soul". But, Sam, this feeling is called already "love"!:)) That, of course, includes all your meanings.:))) I like your idea that man must be father, friend and lover for his loved woman. It's the best joining such man's qualities that woman really need in her life. Thank you for your advice to see that movie, I will try to find and see it.:)) And, Sam, can I ask you, why are you, visiting Russia, living here really for some time, meeting and knowing many real Russian (I mean not only Russian, but all FSU nationalities), FSU women, still here, on dating site, looking for your true love with internet communication? Are you looking someone who is too rare? Or, maybe, all real women were not enough good for you, for your understanding the word 'love'? I am sorry if my question seems not enough tactful for you.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dialup.itte.kz) Date:   04-18-06 03:08 Really, Smiling, it's interesting. I didn't read this magazine but I have seen "Human files" on Discovery Channel about scientific explanation of the physical processes in the body of human being who is fell in love. And there was non-comforting prognosis for duration of love. Scientists give only 4 year for existence of love on physical level. After this period all "love chemistry" is ended. But, it's interesting that many love couples continue to be together. What quality, what feeling does help to them to stay together? Andy, by the way, it's question for you too. So it's one many human feelings that you didn't call before (but Sam's post has some expression of it). Because, according to scientific works - "chemistry" will die but this feeling will stay. What is it?

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Blaine  (---.ph.ph.cox.net) Date:   04-18-06 07:22 People say that a relationship takes work. Maybe it is after the "honeymoon"is over that the real effort begins?

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Andy  (---.63-199-68.atginternet.com) Date:   04-18-06 07:31 Well, Elena, the only thing that comes to my mind, still comes under respect, which is being fathfull, and showing a true interest, in family. da

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Sam  (---.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Date:   04-18-06 17:30 Elena, in my post I meant to bring focus mostly to the importance of imagination, not so much desire. No feeling or desire, whether physical or otherwise, is significant to us unless our imagination takes it to a higher experience than it would otherwise be. That really was the essence of my post: love is a product of ordinary physical feelings and special desires most people have; only some of us allow our imagination to make them into something extraordinary. As for your personal inquiry, I find it perfectly tactful and in some respect my answer will have my posts make more sense. I am not visiting FSU countries just to find a wife; and even if I were looking just for a wife, I would not go there just to look for a lady and find someone without wanting to know her culture. Frankly, I find it strange that many men marry a foreign wife and want to know very little about her culture. To love another person fully, one must know, respect and even love that person’s culture, family, history and so on, because only then we will know the roots of the person we love. It is shallow to think we will marry a person, and not her culture, her family or her past. But beyond the issue of finding a girl, I find other cultures fascinating. People here have many misconceptions about the Slavic culture. And although initially I was a victim of “scammers” as they say, I knew the society was not to be jugged by the few criminals on the internet. I travel a lot, several times a year and there is no country in Europe that I have not been to. But for me the FSU and Russia especially have an inescapable appeal. I spend a lot of time there because I want to have a sense of what it is like to be Russian or Slavic. I have had three long relationships there as well. No, I am not one of those rats Olga complains we American travelers all are. Most travelers are tourists of the physical world; I try to be the tourist of the mind set and sentiments that make a culture different: I like to know for example what makes people of the Balkans or Finland, so close to Russia, so fundamentally different from Russians. And as I say, in this search Russia has been the most challenging and interesting. There is a sad, but passionate quality in the Russian life, one that is rooted in having a difficult life. Even as I walk down the crowded main streets of Moscow and Petersburg, there is a strong sense of some other state of mind: people walking with a quiet expression on their faces, as if they really are walking on the inside and not on the crowded Nevesky. And yet, when you speak to them, they come to life and have much to say with great interest. I have mostly liked the Petersburg sense of life, as opposed to Moscow. Virtually everyone I know in Petersburg plays a musical instrument well, knows classical music very well, and is interested in the arts. I like the connected sense of being a family there, and I like the fact that every class of people, poor or wealthy, finds room for the arts in their lives. It seems Russians find the artistic world a place to escape from some of the difficulties they experience in their lives. Sentiment in relations and arts are the Russian way of dealing with the difficult lives they know. When I go to the Marinsky theater and see three generations of a family - grandmother, mother and young daughter - all coming to see a ballet, I admire the fact that the arts remain the connective tissue that brings all generations of Russia and all of its classes together. It would not be so here in the US where every generation has a different sense of values and artistic culture. Lastly, I am intrigued to watch Russia change in its transition from an old world culture to a new one. Already money and ownership have changed many people there, eroding the simple characters that once defined the Russian culture. Innocence is quickly dying among the young, but still among the older Russians there are some old fashioned values that still tell me how Russia was. Some of these people, after only two years, care more about me than friends I have had in the US for 20 or 30 years. That is one reason why I go there: I have real friends there. I like to think of myself as a romantic student of life; for me romantic is not an act of flowers and routine clichés spoken to a woman; it is an attitude toward life, and from there it extends to the opposite sex. Those who can love deeply & imaginatively, love all of life deeply; and those who love life most learn to love other cultures. For me, the very imagination that fuels romantic love, also fuels a love of other places and other states of mind. Although I love America, I cannot help wanting to know what it is like to be something else. I am now in a relationship with a beautiful girl from Yekaterinburg whom I like very much. I do not yet know her full intentions, but I did not hesitate for a moment to send her money to come and see me in Petersburg and later in Thailand. For me real relations require faith, trust, time and patience. I am not on this site to find other girls at this time, but to continue the tourism of the mind on these forums where I had hoped to promote love of other people and cultures and recommend a softness of attitude that life among other people has taught me. I am sad to realize how useless my voice has been, at least on this site’s forum.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Blaine  (---.ph.ph.cox.net) Date:   04-18-06 23:54 A good post,and well spoken,Sam. We should all rather drink love from the cup of life. It takes much imagination and thinking to give love selflessly to others. I also believe that love transcends the physical,sexual desires and finds there is much else about life that is worth loving. If a person can find the lasting love in the form of a significant other is just a little magic which comes infrequently to many of us,and is a beautiful dream to hold onto.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Smiling  (---.ukrlink.net.ua) Date:   04-19-06 01:36 I think ,such love(Sam wrote about) not for good family life.That is good for meetings. I think he is still lonely because he has such braight imagionation, I think he did his girl from Ekaterinburg in his dreams and he will be dissapointed by her in real life. Such love alike Sam is for 2-6 month. After you will get mad. I agree with Andy, because he is a realist. Respect and good sex and I want to add also common interests- that is important for happy long family life.That is real love. I prefer to have such love. Allthough I had such love about Sam wrote here. Love about Sam wrote -illness(the artickel in March National Geografy). They can't have illness all their life. That is very hard to have such love in really life.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Andy  (---.63-199-68.atginternet.com) Date:   04-19-06 06:41 Thank you Smiling, and remember, with "respect" you can develop common interest, and actualy grow in your relationship, learning, together.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Sam  (---.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Date:   04-19-06 16:24 Smiling, trust me, you do not know me, or the girl from Yekaterinburg or the kind of life that I lead because of my imaginative, passionate mind set, and most certainly you do not know that I am lonely, because I have been in long relations all my life. Contrary to what you say, I did share a life with someone of similar passions for fourteen years and those years represent the happiness that defines my life and my romantic pursuit and I intend to duplicate it!! Besides, I do not see how you can be sure your formula of respect and good sex is sooner sound bases for a “good family life” than the warm, passionate notions with which I approach relations. I am not entirely sure you even understand fully what I wrote about: I simply say that quality of life and love improves with imagination & that imaginative people have more passionate lives; I am not denying the value of the tangible things. Unlike your reaction to my post, I see the merits of your practical life views which are the only theme in your posts. I for example agreed that 20-25 years was too large an age difference between a married couple, but I was amazed to read the brazen condescension with which you wrote your ideas, sinking as low as writing about your $300 pairs of shoes, your expensive flat, and the Englishman who is about to marry you, saying all this just to be able to look down on Katia, a fellow Russian girl who you quickly decided was interested only in money, forcing her to defend herself angrily, resulting in your tearing her down even more so publicly by suggesting she is a lying Russian girl running away from hunger! Is this a cat fight or a forum for ideas? Is this the modern sense of tact with which you mean to lead a life in the UK? In this thread you suggest the practical view that common interest, good sex and respect are your prescription for a good family life. No argument from me: that may work for you but how does that make me ill because I want more of a spiritual connection with another? In your own thread you ended up with some concern in your tone asking people for advice on what seemed to be a less than perfect visit to your Englishman in the UK. Clearly as practical, clever, and educated as you may be, you too do not have all the necessary ideas that bring certainty and clarity to your own affairs. Tell me honestly, if he had only some of my interest in the Russian culture, language, and people and tried to understand them as passionately as I do, would you not have happier relations with him? Is it possible that in order to continue to care about men who may lack sensitivity to your own views and culture, you like to convince yourself that men like me who have such sensitivities are doomed to be alone or fail? May I then politely recommend a slower pace to judgment more suited for someone armed with only borrowed ideas from the National Geographic, missing photo, and hidden name? I do not mean to judge you or even discredit your hard realism or hedonistic approach to life if it truly suits you; but I sense that perhaps due to a secret knowledge that your spiritual existence is lacking, you try repeatedly in your posts to deny the merits or success of anyone else who may have the spiritual ability to look beyond age, money, and simply good sex! You say you are here to improve your English and exchange ideas. May I recommend that you improve first your openness of mind and not so quickly see other women in your own light or measure all men against the ones you have known? I speak strongly here, but I do not mean to offend you or label you; no doubt you are a sociable person who truly wants to learn about others. What is more, I sense from all your posts that you are here partly because you want to find answers that will help you in your personal life. May I suggest then, as gently and softly as I can, that you would find more understanding, growth and perhaps answers to your own dilemmas by studying other lives & ideas by at times setting aside what you have learned from the limits of your life? Without this kind of openness, we are without hope for more and so make decisions based on resignation and fear & remain only where we are. Real growth and understanding do not come from always trying to find evidence to what we already know; they also come from seeking and sincerely trying to embrace ideas, realities and values that contradict what we already know.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Sam  (---.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Date:   04-19-06 16:24 Blaine, thank you for echoing the spirit of what I have said in your own equally fine words, although I am a little surprised to have a man in my chorus of sentiment while Smiling, a Slavic woman, seems to think I am ill!! So be careful in agreeing too much with me; you too may be labeled “dreamy” “ill” person destined to fail. It is very unfortunate that I have only managed to achieve university degrees in Political science, international relations and psychology and made that education the bases of developing my own views through actual contact and life among people of several countries. It seems all I had to do was to read National Geographic articles which apparently nowadays deal with issues of spirituality, romance and rational philosophy of life!! But then, I actually think even if I did read such articles I would still not so quickly predict the failure of life views that contradict what I have read! I suppose it will suffice to offer two relevant quotes here, one is my own: “A little knowledge makes us arrogant, judgmental & at times dangerous; real knowledge makes us humble.” The second quote are the words of a French actress who said in an interview, “Most women are more romantic than most men, but there are a few men who are the real romantics. Those few men are the inspiration for all women.”

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Blaine  (---.ph.ph.cox.net) Date:   04-19-06 17:36 I think it is simply part of a man`s job to be maligned or unrecognized by women. I have much respect for all the ladies here,but I feel that women have been exposed to too much weakness in a man. John Wayne is long gone,and there are too few striking examples of manhood--too few men who stand alone as tributes and fine specimens of maleness. I do not have to look far in this city ( Phoenix ) to see that the role models for boys are the semi-criminal or outrageously notorious men who dominate sports. These are not real men to me--they are simply caricatures of manhood. I always thought that it was in my best interest to annoy women if I could not charm them. At least this produces results--even if it forces out their anger. It makes them think--which is really the single most important part of attracting a woman. If they go from you thinking about something you said--then they have already taken you into their mind,if not their heart. Sometimes it is best to leave them wondering about you--at least you are being thought of!! As one woman from this site told me--"Don`t give away all of your secrets". Intrigue is attractive--and perhaps this is why a woman wants a bible reading gentleman who rides a Harley Davidson. Rough on the outside and well-educated within. Despite all the blah-blah people say about appearances not making a difference, physical,sexual chemistry is important. People have a physical standard of attraction,and it is this attraction ( different for all of us ) which entices or repels them. For the person who says "Looks are not that important", they have never made love with their eyes closed while they called out another person`s name in their mnd. Like the song says,"If you want to be happy the rest of your life,take an ugly girl for your wife". This is an exaggeration,but a woman who is less glamorous will not draw as many men who are willing to cut your throat for one night with her. And if she is a beautiful woman who does not realizeshe is beautiful--so much the better as long as she does not have low self esteem. I do not believe in a "Formula" for love. When 2 people build an intimate history together,often love becomes the comfort of familiarity between the partners. Time builds history,and trust. This is also why I am not impatient for the permanent relations.What seems to be a love so closely shared can also grow apart,like a river which separates at a point,and becomes 2 streams which flow apart from one another. Loss of love,loss of well-being,loss of family and close people--these are all painful lessons which give us perspective on how to preserve what is precious,and how to make the best of the beloved people while we still have them in this world. If there is a formula for love--it should be simply to love like you will never know love again.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Smiling  (---.ukrlink.net.ua) Date:   04-20-06 00:11 Bravo Sam! It is the nice answer for my post. Thank you that you read and learned so well everything what I had written here. Unfortunately, my English is as not good as yours. To get such English and express my mind free is my dream. If it were possible, I would like to discus your post into Russian. But you should not be worried about my understanding of your thoughts here. I had such thoughts when I was younger. I have noticed that life in Russia and Russian culture influenced on your thoughts. I understand you very well, I was influenced by Russian literature, culture, art like all well educated people in my country. But I would like to tell you that to have long term relations(I had ones, too) is different from to have real family with children, common property and problems following from it. When you get real family and experience of family life, we perhaps will have equal talking about love . Now you are alike me , when I didn’t have such experience. And believe me, I know about girls here, their psychology much better than you, because I am a woman and I have watched them here.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Smiling  (---.ukrlink.net.ua) Date:   04-20-06 00:39 :):)Sam, how I understand I made you show your real face in your post with me. National Geography, shoes, Kate. What is more yet? Why do you try to turn upside out all what I had written here? And is it an intellegent educated man? Was I destroying perhaps your minds about your life or something different?

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Sam  (---.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Date:   04-20-06 05:56 Smiling, I do not wish to exchange negative posts with you; that is not why I am here; nor have I turned “upside out” what you have written in all your posts; I have simply summarized many things you have actually said to others and I did so to make a simple point: your life views are sensible and I set aside my views to see the merits of your practical approach to life, but you are hasty and without tact in the way you treat ideas of other people. You are also disproportionately sure of your own ideas. Please read over your first post about me and then re-read my reply to you. You labeled me as a “dreamer” with sentimental views that represent an “illness” leading to my being a “lonely” person with “imagined” ideas about a woman I have met, and I am therefore destined to be “disappointed.” You actually tried to define the entirety of my character, life views and life plans with pitiful labels! In response to you, I did not label you negatively; I did not make pitying judgments about the status of your life; and I certainly did not make ill predictions about your future, all of which would have been very easy for me to do. Instead I simply repeated your words and tone to you, to cause you to consider the manner in which you direct your views and the kind of interaction you produce. I admit I deliberately repeated the worst elements of your posts, and if the result has hurt your feelings, I apologize. As I tried to say even before, I assume you are better than the worst elements and words in your posts; and my intention was for you to see if you can find a different voice within you. I think some of the things you say do not justly represent the ideals and softer sentimental views that I think still exist within you. I liked your first reply to me, the one before you became all emotional! You are right that I have been affected by Russian literature and culture; you are also right that I have watched with some regret how the economic changes are also drying up the sentimental veins of the Russian culture. I even admit that somewhere inside me I had hoped I would find traces of that subtlety passionate Russian culture in the posts from you and other Slavic ladies on this site now that I am back in the US. I admit that the complete absence of that sentimentality in your posts for me reached a personal peak when you called my views a passing illness. And now if we can move past the negatives we both delivered to each other, now that I have your full attention, I like to know if somewhere inside you there is a different voice, that of a softer, more sentimental person who remains hidden like your face and your name. You say that at one point you tried to have a more passionate, sentimental approach to life. My guess is that behind the loud practical bravado in your words, you still hide the softer elements, the unfulfilled desire of a more passionate and sentimental life. You may not find the reason, necessity or the courage to give those hidden elements a voice in your posts or in your life; but perhaps you will now consider not to belittle those who have the courage to do so. We all have the right to say what we want; but what defines our character is the choice of what we say. Regardless of how different we are as people, I wish you success with your Englishman and your mutual pragmatic life views. I like for you to wish me luck in achieving mine.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Blaine  (---.ph.ph.cox.net) Date:   04-20-06 12:23 The trouble with culture,as I have tried to convey before--is that so many people have little culture in their lives. People like me strive to become multi-cultural to help fill some of the emptiness in their lives. The world has become a smaller place for many reasons,chiefly the internet. This electronic medium has done more than any other to expand global knowledge .Thanks to Bill Gates` Windows program,the english language is being read by more and more people around the world. This is expansion of American language,but not culture or understanding. Even our cousins ( the British ) do not really know what it is to be an American. Because America is diverse in nationalities, we have been called the "cultural melting pot". Here you will find Mexican sons of illegal immigrants who speak no Spanish, and practice little or none of their countries tradionalist observances. Sam,at least you have applied study into your life. There are many people who do not care to read,and many more who will only witness the rest of the world from a comfortable chair in front of the television. We need more dreamers--people with imagination,vision,and the determination to make changes in society. I think Russia,more than any country,knows the deception caused by blind allegiance to political despotism and dicatorship. Anyhooooo--I am coming back around to the topic raised by our good friend and colleague Elena. Part of love is tolerating--if not accepting,the differences in people ( within reason! ) So,Vladimir drinks more Stolichnaya then a boat full of drunken sailors!! I pity and have empathy for him. Dima probably wears his heart and dreams on his sleeve,and suffers for the life he wants,but will never have. Meanwhile,our friend from ultra-liberal California--Kevin,only wants to surf and loiter on the sand and watch women as they sashay past on Venice Beach. He has no idea what his life will bring,and really does not care. His ignorance and lack of enthusiasm are his own greatest disservice. I envy his carefree life. It does not matter what drunken filth lies in the gutter with vomit in his hair-- or what lazy slobs waste their life in apathetic abandonment. More than likely there is someone who knows and loves these men,and cares for them despite their bad habits. Somebody cares for them without reservation,without expectation,and without malice.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Sam  (---.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Date:   04-20-06 14:08 Blaine, I agree that tolerance is an essential element in all relations, love relations in particular. I am assuming you raised this point at least partly because of what I was recommending to Smiling and to others in my other posts: tolerance of other views and other people. I think I have already said in my posts that such tolerance requires imagination – the ability to see to whatever extent possible the viability of other views, passions, & aspirations. Those who are able to do so are more likely to become dreamers because they are able to see far beyond where they are. And it is simply true: the world needs more dreamers. I have had to say often to my own pragmatic & realist friends that they are as essential to the future of humanity as those who are dreamers. Your depiction of Dima is fairly accurate, as I have seen young Russian men wearing a deep expression of disappointment and resignation, drinking or smoking in the middle of the day on the exits of metros and sidewalks of Russian cities. They look at me bitterly when I walk by, as I am dressed in nice clothes and walking hand-in-hand with a beautiful Russian girl. In a few situations I have been accosted by the younger ones who clearly know I am a foreigner (happened three times over two years) when they stop me and my companion and simply ask with one or two words, “Italiano?” or “Arminsky?” wanting to know what race or nationality is snatching away from amongst them what they cannot have. I’m resentful initially, but I remind myself later that they are rightfully bitter, and as you say, later on I even hope that someone will love them even if they are unemployed, and even if they are drowned in self-pity. As to what this has to do with Elena’s topic, I will explain again, although I suspect you already know this: compassion, tolerance, kindness, and faith are essential elements of loving. And those who have such qualities do not limit themselves to affection for only the opposite sex, but all life spread out before them, even those who greet us with envy or bitterness. I do not mean to pass myself off as a Buddhist here, but unlike what Smiling was saying, the older I get, the more I realize the importance of these basic human qualities of compassion, tolerance and even interest in those who greatly differ from what I am. And so, I am happy to report, that the older I get, the more people and cultures I explore, the more I dream, the more I love life, and so the stronger my idealism becomes. Life as I have known it has not eroded my idealism; it has fueled it. I think all this prepares me for love and life on a level I did not experience or imagine in my youth. Unlike in my youth the love I feel now is no longer confined to physical sensations and longings I have; it actually extends far beyond and is connected to all things I have loved in my life so far. My love of another is no longer rooted in need or mere physical desire; it is now rooted in my love of life as a whole and it is inseparable.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Blaine  (---.ph.ph.cox.net) Date:   04-20-06 14:55 Friggin beautiful,man!! There is a need in life for such elocution of the word. If we were to live for 200 years on this earth,we might not even have the desire for sex anymore,as it is the basest form of love. Who knows? Perhaps our afterlife will prove us to be simple,amorphous spirits. And as our souls or emotionalities evolve and mature,our love will become ever more universal,and less physical.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (212.116.244.---) Date:   04-21-06 03:39 Dear friends, it's great pleasure to read all your posts and I thank everyone who was active here.:)) Sam, Nadya, all you were just fine in your sincerity and passion of your thoughts and feelings selflessly fighting for your ideas.:)) At times your dialog was like old debate what is better - apple or pear (in this thread - material or spiritual), but as a whole you both were useful for working out this topic and for inner self-knowledge. Blaine, you kept your heart cold and have had the most patient, loyal, tolerant tone of voice here what was very useful for continuation of conversation. By the way, Blaine, are you reading a bible? In the case of your positive answer you have a good chance to be "a bible reading gentleman who rides a Harley Davidson", the favourite of the women, as you write.:)) Andy, you were the most short here (maybe, it means - the most talented?:)) ) but the most close to this thread and pretended to be the winner of this topic(!), but have not found in your mind the third component of the formula of love. Actually it's pity.:)) Now it's time to clear up what I have really meant raising this topic. There is one interesting formula of love in the Indian treatise named "A spray (branch) of the peach". It says: " Attraction of the minds arouses Respect, attraction of the souls arouses Friendship, attraction of the bodies arouses Desire... All together arouses Love." It would be curious to hear your opinions now here.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Blaine  (---.ph.ph.cox.net) Date:   04-22-06 01:06 Elena wrote:Attraction of the minds arouses Respect, attraction of the souls arouses Friendship, attraction of the bodies arouses Desire... All together arouses Love." This topic just keeps getting better and better!! These are beautiful sentiments you have quoted,Elena!! I will wait to respond--as I have already flooded the forum with my evil mayhem!!

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dp.arna.kz) Date:   04-22-06 10:43 Thanks, Blaine, I will wait your clever respond as well and responds and opinions all other people here.:)

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Andy  (---.63-199-68.atginternet.com) Date:   04-22-06 12:11 Well, Elena, I knew what you were waiting for (smile), but, there is a difference in thinking in your society, I have heard of women looking for "friends first", but in my short time on this planet, which most of has been in America, I have found that as soon as a man becomes the "friend" of the woman, all romantic prospects disappear. Most of the marriages that become divorces, are in this area. I have seen and heard it many times (lol).

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Ronnie  (---.wk.net) Date:   04-22-06 20:19 Smiling You know that love doesnt come out of a high education that you are always taking about it come from feeling I had druthers have some one with just good common sense and under standing. and you can't live your life out of a book like national geography and like you are always quoting out of. it is like all other books they are out to make money and to draw your attention so that you will buy it, and yes I read national geography but I don't live my life out of it because it not always right and this means nothing to the one in love. Olga, Love is where you want to spend all your time with them, and them be apart of your life and to let them be by your side at all times to be your best friend your lover and partner and treat them with respect and to make all the decision together and someone that you want to be the (mother or father) of there children. and to have some one that you would think that would make you a good stable home with and trust of each other and love you always. you have to work on it, it is what you make of it you both have to put out a lot of effort to make it work. it can't just be one side. and when you find that someone then you will know that, that is the one you are looking for, and then your heart will know.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Blaine  (---.ph.ph.cox.net) Date:   04-23-06 00:32 It is when the friendship ends that the man starts sleeping on the couch,watching old movies until early in the morning. I simply do not understand where the friendship and passion for each other fades and becomes just routine and familiar co-habitation. It is not part of my plan,and I will not tolerate it. After the spark of romance begins to fade,so does desire. True love reaches out to the other person--it enjoys them,plays with them, is curious about them. Without the Formula,I start to feel like I am losing my identity. I would be like a robot going through the motions. I am not content to simply exist--

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Lorentz  (---.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Date:   04-23-06 01:04 All this time,... - had I but known there was a formula !! - AND, - Unlike some 'formula for success' that you have to pay money for, buy a book and go to the seminar, ... it's free, and all I had to do was check a thread on Forum. - I'm almost temped to bottle it up and market it myself. If it works I should pass Mr. Gates on the Forbes list in no time at all. - Now that I recall however, that old Gypsy woman didn't do so well with love potion #9, so perhaps I'm missing the point. Oh, I know, this post has to do with the "difference" of love in ferin folk !! - Smiling apparently didn't like the answers to the question she had previously presented. - Well if there is any better example of some things being universal, I don't know what is. Ask a question and then disregard the answer simply because it was not the one you wanted to hear. - With so much distance and so many differences I suppose I should not be surprised that some of those things that are universal must be percieved as being "different" if they are not working well to the satisfaction of the person asking. I'm sure on my next visit to the FSU, I will discover that water is less wet, the sky less blue, the sun rises from the north and if cut the locals will bleed pommegranite juice. - Of course "Love" is different, can be "processed" from chemicals in a lab and folks put there pants on from the top. Your friendly neighborhood Viking.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Ronnie  (---.wk.net) Date:   04-23-06 04:06 Sorry Elena On my last forum that I wrote in here, I put Olga I meant it to be for Elena and I put Olga sorry forgive me please. and Elena this was your forum this was really for her. I should have check national geography first it would have told me of my mistakes. all well I guess that it show me that I am human and we all make mistakes. Elena Sorry!

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dp.arna.kz) Date:   04-23-06 05:38 Smiling, Sam, where are you? Still thinking of it or lost any interest to this topic?:)

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Smiling  (---.ukrlink.net.ua) Date:   05-01-06 12:37 I am sorry very much,dear Elena. I was very busy with my wedding.And now I have got flu together with my husband and must cure us both. I like your topic, but really don't have time now for reading and writing here.But I will do it late.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dp.arna.kz) Date:   05-03-06 06:34 Happy marriage, Smiling! And we all will wait you back here.:))

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Tony Harper  (---.pink.co.uk) Date:   07-08-06 09:48 Zdravstuite What is love? We all have our own interpretations of the meaning of love. A few of the many aspects of love for me are- “To give yourself totally and unconditionally in body, sole, and mind to the person you are sharing your life with” The emphasise applying to words “give, totally, unconditionally and sharing” Love is all about giving, not taking. Love is also about receiving, receiving love without criticism excepting each other’s faults; yes we all have faults and trying to understand each other more. Love is about saying sorry when we are wrong. Not many people can say sorry, some think it a weakness, to me they are wrong, you have to be very strong to say sorry and mean it. Love is about forgiveness to those who have wronged us; this is also a very hard for some to do. You have to forgive so you can go on and move forward if you do not forgive then there is hatred still in your heart that will always cloud and taint a new love. What is Marriage? To me marriage is about love, giving, and all of the above! To share on an equal level. Your partner being your best friend and lover someone you can share all that life throws at you, good or bad. Someone who can laugh be happy with, and cry at sad times, (yes I cry at times, some would say not very manly again, but I like to think that I am in touch with my feelings and not ashamed to show them) to share those fears, dreams, desires, a lover, a soulmate. Someone who you can put your arms around and embrace, to look into each others eyes and say those magic words “I love you” and mean it! I am sorry if the above is a bit heavy but it is part of my basic principals. I have been very truthful and have told you some very personal things about myself. However, I regard these things to be the foundations of the way I think, if a possible partner knows and understand this then a relationship can be built upon a solid and stable foundations and hopefully the relationship will mature into something that would bring much happiness to us both.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Yulia  (---.85.sitel.com.ua) Date:   07-13-06 04:14 Hello all, I won't be as eloquent as others, just say what I mean when say "Love" word - for me this definition includes the following - friendship, respect, understanding and adoration to some extent). And I hope you won't mind if I also add my definition of "Happiness" - to be happy one should just remember all the good things, and forget all the bad things.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Tony Harper  (84.54.69.---) Date:   09-03-06 22:34 Hi all, Yulia, "to full in love" "and forget all the bad things"? I am now in Tashkent, and before in Kirvo. the last few days left before I retuen to the UK Such differing countrys and citys! I have found friendship in both places, I will always remember the good time becuase there have been many! ! ! If I had known what I know now I would have gone many years ago if it were possible! I understand so much more now! lol Tony temp. in Tashkent

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Andy  (---.63-199-68.atginternet.com) Date:   09-04-06 07:30 Well, Tony, I think "hind site" is always 20/20 da. I think you now understand the meaning of "go there" and see for your self (smile). Good or bad, a thousand letters connot take the place of one visit.

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Elena  (---.dialup.itte.kz) Date:   09-04-06 19:04 Hi, Tony, It's so good to hear the nice, enthusiastic words about travel in FSU. It's so rare here:)) Tony, of course, friendship is the greatest feeling between two people and did you meet something more there? Something that is in Formula of Love for you?

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Tony Harper  (---.pink.co.uk) Date:   10-19-06 21:38 Hi Elena, My thoughts are with you. I have some very good news for a change to add to this site! In answer to your question “and did you meet something more there?” I have just got back from my second trip to Tashkent, Uzbekistan in the space of a month. I could only stay for a few days this time which were packed with intense emotions between us. Elvira and I had talked a lot about the future and what it may hold for us before this second trip. At the first opportunity of arrival I dropped to my knees and asked Elvira’s hand in marriage. This offer was accepted instantly with much delight between the both of us. Have changed my second photo on this site, which should be displayed subject to the web site approval. Preparations are in hand for Elvira to visit England in December (hope that it is no too cold for her). The wonders of the internet, using Skype has enables us to talk daily to each other for over an hour at a time! The hard work of visas applications is now in progress both with the Uzbek and British authorities, an up hill challenge not to be taken lightly! To some I am an old “granddad” and I do not have any problems with those remarks, because it is true. I have experienced many new and memorable sensation during the three weeks spent at differing locations in Russia and Uzbekistan. I wanted to meet real people and sense the conditions first hand. I carry with me lots of happy memoirs of this time not just for the woman I have fallen in love with, but for the countries and its people. I will be returning many times in the future, I only wish I had the courage to travel East before! I take is opportunity to sincerely thank the people from Russian and Uzbekistan because without their help and understand my life would never have changed! Tony in the UK

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Andy  (---.sub-75-211-172.myvzw.com) Date:   10-21-06 17:37 good show Tony (smile)

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: lilia  (---.asilan.net) Date:   10-24-06 01:37 ????????? ?????? ????? ??? ? ???? ????. ? ?? ??????? ? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ???????? ? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ??.????? ?????? ? ???? ,?????? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ? ???? ??????? ??????? ? ???????????,?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ? ???? ?? ??? ?? ???? ??. ?? ?????? ??? ????????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ????? ,?? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ? ?? ?? ????? ???? ? ?????? ? ???????. ??????

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Ann  (---.dialup.awanti.com) Date:   10-27-06 11:15 I won't be as eloquent as others, just say what I mean when say "Love" word - for me this definition includes the following - friendship, respect, understanding and adoration to some extent). +++ I was the same as Julia but probably I m 2 old now and I dont thinkof understanding or friendship or respect in LOVE)) I can take friendship, respect and understanding from my friends, boys and gils. I want from mylove only 1 thing - LOVE)))lilia wrote:

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Re: Formula of Love.

Profile Author: Ronnie  (---.wk.net) Date:   11-05-06 16:08 Tony I would like to congratulate you and Elvira and glade that you took Andy and my advice and just go to there country to find out for your self , now did you meet Elvira on the Internet or did you just meet her when you got there like I meet Marina really that is the only way. I really hate to say this but that is the best way because at least you know that she was real and the kind of person she is. and not trying to scam you out of money and you know that she was a real person not just a picture. so keep us in contack on how it gose with the Visa it shoulden be as hard to get a visa for the uk as it is for the U.S. like I said tony congratulateing to you and Elvira and hope every thing go as good as it has with Marina and me.

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